Comments on: Root cellar check-in http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/ Daily photo-journal of organic market gardening: growing local food with two acres and some tools...! Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:49:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Tom http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-24894 Tom Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:01:03 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-24894 Re:  Root Cellar Construction Questions. Any input appreciated.  Planning a 8' x 10' below-flat-ground root cellar on a prairie farm site. 1.  I want to use pressure treated lumber for walls and roof - are there any problems with chemical out-gassing of such lumber into the cellar?  2.  Are there any problems insulating walls and roof with fiberglass batts?  If so, what alternatives do you recommend? 3.  Would it be wise to line interior with a shower-liner type of material (for condensation, for ease of cleaning, to naturally "brighten" the room, to seal against out-gassing if this is a problem with treated lumber, etc.)? 4.  What stops this room from filling up with water due to snow melt, heavy rains?  The roof will overhang the walls 2'.  Roof will have 1' to 2' of earth covering it.  Walls and roof will have tar and plastic over plywood so will be waterproof.  Water would thus enter only from below walls or through door seams.  Floor will be 4" of rock with a rock-sump centered in floor and a rock-sump outside of door.  Are these methods good enough to prevent flooding?  Am I too overly concerned about this issue? 5.  Is it best to locate cellar in a shady area or does this not matter because it is used primarily in winter?   This is a very nice site.  Thanks in advance for any input.  I do have books on the subject but am having trouble with these project-specific issues.  If this query should be posted in a better subject locale please let me know. Good day! Tom Re:  Root Cellar Construction Questions.

Any input appreciated.  Planning a 8′ x 10′ below-flat-ground root cellar on a prairie farm site.

1.  I want to use pressure treated lumber for walls and roof - are there any problems with chemical out-gassing of such lumber into the cellar? 
2.  Are there any problems insulating walls and roof with fiberglass batts?  If so, what alternatives do you recommend?
3.  Would it be wise to line interior with a shower-liner type of material (for condensation, for ease of cleaning, to naturally “brighten” the room, to seal against out-gassing if this is a problem with treated lumber, etc.)?
4.  What stops this room from filling up with water due to snow melt, heavy rains?  The roof will overhang the walls 2′.  Roof will have 1′ to 2′ of earth covering it.  Walls and roof will have tar and plastic over plywood so will be waterproof.  Water would thus enter only from below walls or through door seams.  Floor will be 4″ of rock with a rock-sump centered in floor and a rock-sump outside of door.  Are these methods good enough to prevent flooding?  Am I too overly concerned about this issue?
5.  Is it best to locate cellar in a shady area or does this not matter because it is used primarily in winter?  

This is a very nice site.  Thanks in advance for any input.  I do have books on the subject but am having trouble with these project-specific issues.  If this query should be posted in a better subject locale please let me know.

Good day!
Tom

]]> By: Mike (tfb) http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-24869 Mike (tfb) Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:34:40 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-24869 <p><strong>Lee:</strong> Yeah, your assessment is about right. When I saw that it wasn't getting very cold, and it certainly wasn't very humid, I knew it wasn't gonna be great. Trying it out was a kind of afterthought, and I didn't really check out or prep the basement. The winter squash actually did OK, there are still some good acorn squash. The onions were largely OK as well till about a month ago, except lots of them started to sprout. There weren't many apples and potatoes, so we used most of 'em, but they last ones started shriveling and decomposing one way or another. There wasn't enough humidity for carrots and beets, so I put them in plastic bags with a bunch of holes punched in as an emergency measure, which increased the humidity and kept most of 'em edible till we ran out. Anyhow, I'll be cleaning it out soon and post a...report. :) This year, I'll hopefully be able to work on a real, two-room root cellar.</p> Lee: Yeah, your assessment is about right. When I saw that it wasn’t getting very cold, and it certainly wasn’t very humid, I knew it wasn’t gonna be great. Trying it out was a kind of afterthought, and I didn’t really check out or prep the basement. The winter squash actually did OK, there are still some good acorn squash. The onions were largely OK as well till about a month ago, except lots of them started to sprout. There weren’t many apples and potatoes, so we used most of ‘em, but they last ones started shriveling and decomposing one way or another. There wasn’t enough humidity for carrots and beets, so I put them in plastic bags with a bunch of holes punched in as an emergency measure, which increased the humidity and kept most of ‘em edible till we ran out. Anyhow, I’ll be cleaning it out soon and post a…report. :) This year, I’ll hopefully be able to work on a real, two-room root cellar.

]]> By: Lee http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-24852 Lee Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:40:00 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-24852 Wondering how you've made out by now, end of April?   No doubt you've learned onions are NOT for rootcellaring and neither are punkins and squash.  Certain apples are better than others as well as potatoes.  When temp is right, and humidity too, rootcrops keep well.  You shouldn't keep apples and potatoes together.  We've had a cellar with dirt floor for years.  Russets and Yukon potatoes are still as good as the day I put them in.   Greening apples are still not bad.  Carrots, beets, parsnips and winter radishes are still holding up well.  They can now be reset in the garden to get seed from.   You can build a nice "cold room' in the corner of a basement relatively cheap and it will function nearly as well as a root cellar.  We have a dry cold room in our basement since we also have the cellar.  Onions, sweet potates, punkins, hams, and squash are kept there along with all our home canned things.  Root cellar is too damp for all of the above.  It will rust the lids on your fruit jars unless you use zinc lids or glass lids that don't require a bale handle as the wire bail rusts too in a root cellar.   If the cellar doesn't rust the lids, it's not high enough humidity to do a good job of keeping your root crops. Wondering how you’ve made out by now, end of April?   No doubt you’ve learned onions are NOT for rootcellaring and neither are punkins and squash.  Certain apples are better than others as well as potatoes.  When temp is right, and humidity too, rootcrops keep well.  You shouldn’t keep apples and potatoes together.  We’ve had a cellar with dirt floor for years.  Russets and Yukon potatoes are still as good as the day I put them in.   Greening apples are still not bad.  Carrots, beets, parsnips and winter radishes are still holding up well.  They can now be reset in the garden to get seed from.   You can build a nice “cold room’ in the corner of a basement relatively cheap and it will function nearly as well as a root cellar.  We have a dry cold room in our basement since we also have the cellar.  Onions, sweet potates, punkins, hams, and squash are kept there along with all our home canned things.  Root cellar is too damp for all of the above.  It will rust the lids on your fruit jars unless you use zinc lids or glass lids that don’t require a bale handle as the wire bail rusts too in a root cellar.   If the cellar doesn’t rust the lids, it’s not high enough humidity to do a good job of keeping your root crops.

]]> By: Mike (tfb) http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-14155 Mike (tfb) Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:58:06 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-14155 Hey, Anonymous, that's interesting, I wonder what results people are getting from cold storage, what's ideal and what is being used but isn't that great. I'll start a topic in the forum, and sooner or later we may find out! Hey, Anonymous, that’s interesting, I wonder what results people are getting from cold storage, what’s ideal and what is being used but isn’t that great. I’ll start a topic in the forum, and sooner or later we may find out!

]]> By: Anonymous http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-13896 Anonymous Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:24:31 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-13896 I'm curios what other people have found about the quality of the veggies they've stored. My neighbor loves to give me carrots that she has stored for several months, but I usually can't use them for anything other than soup (or soup stock!) I've stored garlic, potatoes, squash in my unheated basement for years, with mixed results. I just cooked a pumpkin yesterday and the flavor was pretty bland. My temps are high, I think, about 50F, although they do go lower in colder weather. Also, the humidity is nowhere near 90%. Do you really think it should be that high? It seems like you would encourage mold. I'd really like to improve my winter storage, so I'm thinking about how to isolate a storage area against an exterior wall, and maybe use the water coming in from the well to keep it cool. My major problem is air circulation. I’m curios what other people have found about the quality of the veggies they’ve stored. My neighbor loves to give me carrots that she has stored for several months, but I usually can’t use them for anything other than soup (or soup stock!)

I’ve stored garlic, potatoes, squash in my unheated basement for years, with mixed results. I just cooked a pumpkin yesterday and the flavor was pretty bland. My temps are high, I think, about 50F, although they do go lower in colder weather. Also, the humidity is nowhere near 90%. Do you really think it should be that high? It seems like you would encourage mold.

I’d really like to improve my winter storage, so I’m thinking about how to isolate a storage area against an exterior wall, and maybe use the water coming in from the well to keep it cool. My major problem is air circulation.

]]> By: Ryan http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12728 Ryan Sun, 30 Dec 2007 02:01:36 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12728 Perfect. I'll post some pics on my blog as the root cellar progresses.. Perfect. I’ll post some pics on my blog as the root cellar progresses..

]]> By: Mike (tfb) http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12477 Mike (tfb) Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:36:16 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12477 That sounds great! 7°F is getting there. In the past, I've stored beets, carrots, potatoes for a couple of months in the Milkhouse in warmer conditions than that! If they're in good shape to start with, veggies can can be surprisingly forgiving! I started a post in Tiny Farm Forum, <a href="http://tinyfarmblog.com/forum/topic/building-a-basement-root-cellar?replies=1" rel="nofollow">Building a basement root cellar</a>, that sums up the basics. I'll add anything I come up with or think of or learn, and you could add your discoveries, ideas, questions, whatever, whenever you like! That sounds great! 7°F is getting there. In the past, I’ve stored beets, carrots, potatoes for a couple of months in the Milkhouse in warmer conditions than that! If they’re in good shape to start with, veggies can can be surprisingly forgiving!

I started a post in Tiny Farm Forum, Building a basement root cellar, that sums up the basics. I’ll add anything I come up with or think of or learn, and you could add your discoveries, ideas, questions, whatever, whenever you like!

]]> By: Ryan http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12475 Ryan Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:11:49 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12475 I actually ordered that book today. Looking forward to reading a bit more on it. I started constructing some wooden bushel crates modelled after an apple crate I found online. Some shelving and such should be next on the list. The temp right now in the cellar is hovering around 7 degrees so its a tad warm but the door to the boiler room is open currently so I'm sure that's throwing a couple degrees worth of heat in there as well. I think when I get the remaining concrete floor torn up and back to the bare earth that should help as well. I guess harvest season is a long time away still but it will save rushing come late summer/fall. I actually ordered that book today. Looking forward to reading a bit more on it. I started constructing some wooden bushel crates modelled after an apple crate I found online. Some shelving and such should be next on the list. The temp right now in the cellar is hovering around 7 degrees so its a tad warm but the door to the boiler room is open currently so I’m sure that’s throwing a couple degrees worth of heat in there as well. I think when I get the remaining concrete floor torn up and back to the bare earth that should help as well. I guess harvest season is a long time away still but it will save rushing come late summer/fall.

]]> By: Mike (tfb) http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12328 Mike (tfb) Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:46:52 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12328 Hey Ryan, it sounds like you may have a basement and are planning to build a root cellar in it. If you do and you aren't, you should! It's relatively inexpensive, and fairly simple, just a little walled off storage room, preferably with its own outside window or vent so that you can regulate temperature and let in some cold. Search for something like "basement root cellar", there are lots of articles and plans online. A good book is the one I mentioned in the comments above. For most storage veggies, anywhere under 5°C to just around freezing is best, with high humidity, 90%+. Our basement here isn't ideal, it used to have a dirt floor, and even earlier, there was no furnace, and it was filled with potatoes and other veggies for an entire big family's winter eating. Now, with the furnace, the temperature probably won't go below 8-10°C. For the farming, the plan is to build a root cellar out in the field (dig a BIG hole,...), so I haven't bothered fixing up the basement. Hey Ryan, it sounds like you may have a basement and are planning to build a root cellar in it. If you do and you aren’t, you should! It’s relatively inexpensive, and fairly simple, just a little walled off storage room, preferably with its own outside window or vent so that you can regulate temperature and let in some cold. Search for something like “basement root cellar”, there are lots of articles and plans online. A good book is the one I mentioned in the comments above. For most storage veggies, anywhere under 5°C to just around freezing is best, with high humidity, 90%+. Our basement here isn’t ideal, it used to have a dirt floor, and even earlier, there was no furnace, and it was filled with potatoes and other veggies for an entire big family’s winter eating. Now, with the furnace, the temperature probably won’t go below 8-10°C. For the farming, the plan is to build a root cellar out in the field (dig a BIG hole,…), so I haven’t bothered fixing up the basement.

]]> By: Ryan http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12136 Ryan Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:04:18 +0000 http://tinyfarmblog.com/2007/12/14/root-cellar-check-in/#comment-12136 Hey Mike, Santa brought us a digital thermometer to measure temp and humidity so we can track the temp this winter to see how the root cellar planned for next year will fare. We need to find a way to store some of those great veggies we are expecting next season. What sort of temp and humidity ranges are you finding? Hey Mike, Santa brought us a digital thermometer to measure temp and humidity so we can track the temp this winter to see how the root cellar planned for next year will fare. We need to find a way to store some of those great veggies we are expecting next season. What sort of temp and humidity ranges are you finding?

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